Narrow-Leaf Headache Vine at Ventnor, VIC
Identification history
| Clematis microphylla | 21 Feb 2023 | MichaelBedingfield | ||
| Clematis microphylla | 21 Feb 2023 | MichaelBedingfield | ||
| Clematis microphylla | 18 Dec 2021 | Tapirlord |
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User's notes
Quite common on Phillip island.
11 comments
natureguy
wrote:
15 Feb 2023
For some reason when I tried to add this one it said "record not found".
Tapirlord
wrote:
16 Feb 2023
My understanding is that MichaelB merged it as synonomous with C.leptophylla based on something Betty wood said (which you an I both know doesn't reflect current nomenculture). Its a little inconvenient.
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
17 Feb 2023
Clematis leptophylla & microphylla were placed under Clematis leptophylla years ago by Betty Wood. ALA has them both - https://bie.ala.org.au/species/https://id.biodiversity.org.au/node/apni/2905395
and https://bie.ala.org.au/species/https://id.biodiversity.org.au/node/apni/2901722, with C. microphylla being the most common. So you think we should change the name to C. microphylla?
and https://bie.ala.org.au/species/https://id.biodiversity.org.au/node/apni/2901722, with C. microphylla being the most common. So you think we should change the name to C. microphylla?
Tapirlord
wrote:
17 Feb 2023
My understanding is that Clematis leptophylla was splilt from Clematis microphylla a number of years ago. The two taxa are treated seperately and are both regarded as current by the Vic & NSW herbaria, they are seperated by leaflet features.
Leaflets more than 12, up to 4.5 cm long, lobed or entire (Clematis leptophylla)
Leaflets 9(–12), up to 6 cm long, rarely lobed (Clematis microphylla)
Based on this couplet the specimen photographed here should be C.microphylla, which is in line with known distributions as C.leptophylla doesn't get this far south. What we have on the southern tablelands is largely C.leptophylla.
I'm guessing this was a pre-global taxonomy change when each project had its own species list & it didn't make sense to maintain both on CNM. However, given the two aren't actually synonomous I think this is quite misleading for contributors so both taxa should be seperated and maintained individually.
The same is true for Phyllanthus occidentalis & Phyllanthus hirtellus which aren't synonomous either & should be seperated. P.occidentalis for CNM while P.hirtellus for the SCNM, GSNM & HRNM (all in NSW).
Leaflets more than 12, up to 4.5 cm long, lobed or entire (Clematis leptophylla)
Leaflets 9(–12), up to 6 cm long, rarely lobed (Clematis microphylla)
Based on this couplet the specimen photographed here should be C.microphylla, which is in line with known distributions as C.leptophylla doesn't get this far south. What we have on the southern tablelands is largely C.leptophylla.
I'm guessing this was a pre-global taxonomy change when each project had its own species list & it didn't make sense to maintain both on CNM. However, given the two aren't actually synonomous I think this is quite misleading for contributors so both taxa should be seperated and maintained individually.
The same is true for Phyllanthus occidentalis & Phyllanthus hirtellus which aren't synonomous either & should be seperated. P.occidentalis for CNM while P.hirtellus for the SCNM, GSNM & HRNM (all in NSW).
natureguy
wrote:
17 Feb 2023
I agree with all the above from Ciaran, thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed explanation. The two Clematis species should be separate.
MichaelBedingfield
wrote:
20 Feb 2023
When we started CNM we had the 2 species separate as you request. But after some time they were placed under the one name. Betty Woods & Michael M did the job. I would like to have the opinion of @MichaelMulvaney before doing anything. If he doesn't reply to this comment, maybe you could contact him more directly.
MichaelMulvaney
wrote:
20 Feb 2023
Sorry i have been away = Ciaran is correct and we should implement his suggestion
MichaelMulvaney
wrote:
21 Feb 2023
I am not an administrator for East Gippsland so some-one else will need to make the changes
Location information
- Coordinates 145.192719-38.457692
- Altitude 20.4m
- Places Ventnor, VIC
Sighting information
- 15 Abundance
- 14 Dec 2021 08:23 PM Recorded on
- Tapirlord Recorded by
-
Collections
Plants Climbers & Mistletoes Tapirlord Gippsland NatureMapr
Additional information
- 10cm to 30cm Plant height
Species information
- Clematis microphylla Scientific name
- Narrow-Leaf Headache Vine Common name
- Not Sensitive
- Local native
- Non-invasive or negligible
- 7.73m to 24.93m Recorded at altitude
- Machine learning
- External link More information
Record quality
- Images or audio
- More than one media file
- Verified by an expert moderator
- Nearby sighting(s) of same species
- GPS evidence of location
- Description
- Additional attributes
