Clematis microphylla

Narrow-Leaf Headache Vine at Ventnor, VIC

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Identification history

Clematis microphylla	21 Feb 2023	michaelb
Clematis microphylla	21 Feb 2023	michaelb
Clematis microphylla	18 Dec 2021	Tapirlord

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User's notes

Quite common on Phillip island.

11 comments

natureguy wrote:

15 Feb 2023

For some reason when I tried to add this one it said "record not found".

Tapirlord wrote:

16 Feb 2023

My understanding is that MichaelB merged it as synonomous with C.leptophylla based on something Betty wood said (which you an I both know doesn't reflect current nomenculture). Its a little inconvenient.

natureguy wrote:

16 Feb 2023

Yes, that is annoying. @michaelb any chance you can fix this one?

michaelb wrote:

17 Feb 2023

Clematis leptophylla & microphylla were placed under Clematis leptophylla years ago by Betty Wood. ALA has them both - https://bie.ala.org.au/species/https://id.biodiversity.org.au/node/apni/2905395
and https://bie.ala.org.au/species/https://id.biodiversity.org.au/node/apni/2901722, with C. microphylla being the most common. So you think we should change the name to C. microphylla?

michaelb wrote:

17 Feb 2023

Hi @MichaelMulvaney - what do you think?

Tapirlord wrote:

17 Feb 2023

My understanding is that Clematis leptophylla was splilt from Clematis microphylla a number of years ago. The two taxa are treated seperately and are both regarded as current by the Vic & NSW herbaria, they are seperated by leaflet features.

Leaflets more than 12, up to 4.5 cm long, lobed or entire (Clematis leptophylla)
Leaflets 9(–12), up to 6 cm long, rarely lobed (Clematis microphylla)

Based on this couplet the specimen photographed here should be C.microphylla, which is in line with known distributions as C.leptophylla doesn't get this far south. What we have on the southern tablelands is largely C.leptophylla.

I'm guessing this was a pre-global taxonomy change when each project had its own species list & it didn't make sense to maintain both on CNM. However, given the two aren't actually synonomous I think this is quite misleading for contributors so both taxa should be seperated and maintained individually.

The same is true for Phyllanthus occidentalis & Phyllanthus hirtellus which aren't synonomous either & should be seperated. P.occidentalis for CNM while P.hirtellus for the SCNM, GSNM & HRNM (all in NSW).

natureguy wrote:

17 Feb 2023

I agree with all the above from Ciaran, thanks for taking the time to provide such a detailed explanation. The two Clematis species should be separate.

michaelb wrote:

20 Feb 2023

When we started CNM we had the 2 species separate as you request. But after some time they were placed under the one name. Betty Woods & Michael M did the job. I would like to have the opinion of @MichaelMulvaney before doing anything. If he doesn't reply to this comment, maybe you could contact him more directly.

MichaelMulvaney wrote:

20 Feb 2023

Sorry i have been away = Ciaran is correct and we should implement his suggestion

MichaelMulvaney wrote:

21 Feb 2023

I am not an administrator for East Gippsland so some-one else will need to make the changes

michaelb wrote:

21 Feb 2023

Thanks Michael M

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